Palestinian composer and pianist Rima Nasir Tarazi reflects on her extraordinary life, sharing wisdom shaped by 93 years of personal and political challenges. Despite everything she’s witnessed, or perhaps because of it, Rima still holds a remarkable grit for life. In this episode she reminds us to remain hopeful and shares with us her enduring love for music and how it has served as a powerful vehicle for both self-expression and social activism.
Aside from her musical career, Rima has also held important leadership and founding roles in several Palestinian institutions including Edward Said National Conservatory of Music, Birzeit University, the YWCA, Inaash Al Usra.
This episode is hosted and produced by Tala Elissa. Our executive producer is Zina Jardaneh. Our associate producer is Zeena Shehadeh. Social media by Leen Karadsheh. Research and copywriting by Dima Sharif. Branding by Sara Sukhun. Theme music includes excerpts from Clarissa Bitar, The Popular Art Centre - مركز الفن الشعبي & Rim Banna.
This episode was recorded on the 2nd of July, 2025.
Tarwida is a series of conversations that bring Palestinian arts, culture and heritage to the forefront. We hear from artists including writers, filmmakers, musicians, architects, culinary practitioners and more about their very own Palestine.
In a nutshell, if you want to know more about (Creative) Palestine, this is the place to be.
Follow us on @tarwidapodcast
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Songs Included by Rima Nasir Tarazi and sung by Tania Tamari Nasir:
Relevant links and Resources:
Tala: [00:00:00] In 1980, a 14-year-old girl named Hania was walking home from school in Ramallah when an Israeli soldier shot her in the leg, her godmother Rima Nasir Tarazi responded with a song, but the song wasn't just about Hania, it carried the sorrow of an entire people. In it, Rima also remembers Lina Al Nabulsi and Taghrid Al-Batma two Palestinian girls killed by the occupation.
Through her music and writing, Rima reminds us that in Palestine, the personal is always political, and the political is always deeply personal. In other words, Hania was one of many. But Rima doesn't try to document tragedy alone. She writes to insist on [00:01:00] beauty and on hope, because hope is not a sentiment, it's a duty.
Despair is very costly, and we simply cannot afford it.
Born in Yafa in 1932. Rima Nasir Tarazi is a Palestinian writer and composer who has played a vital role in shaping Palestinian cultural and social life. She's a founding member of the Birzeit University Board of Trustees and the co-founder of the Edward Said National Conservatory of Music. She also held leadership roles in Inash al Usra, the YWCA and Palestinian General Union of Women.
For decades, Rima has been an institution builder, educator, and an activist. Today we sit with her to learn from her extraordinary life and to try to catch some of that stubborn hope.
This episode was recorded on the 2nd of July, 2025.[00:02:00]
I'm your host, Tala Elissa, and you're listening to Tarwida.
Rima Nasir Tarazi, we are so, so delighted to have you with us on Tarwida.
Rima: Thank you very much. I'm so happy to meet you and to be with you too.
Tala: You know, personally, this is very exciting for me because I used to sing your songs in my school's choir.. I was in the Ahliyah School for Girls in Amman, and I remember very vividly in 2009 after the invasion of Gaza, um, the school organized a beautiful concert and it was all your songs.
And until today, we always remember me and my sisters, uh, a couple of your songs that really like, uh, left a mark on us. So you, you left your impact, even [00:03:00] without you knowing.
Rima: I'm so happy to hear that. Yes. It, it was with Samia Ghannoum, wasn't it?
Tala: With Samia
Rima: Ghannoum
Tala: Yes. Yes.
Rima: She, she, she was wonderful. Yeah. She's a wonderful musician.
Yeah.
Tala: But aside from that, we are very, very excited to have you with us because, uh, you are older than occupation. And that speaks volumes, you know? You were born in 1932, which means that you've witnessed it all. You've witnessed it, uh, from the 1936 Revolution, World War II, up until unfortunately the genocide in Gaza today.
And, uh, this is, uh, very like, um, very important for us. And we feel like you're a walking archive, you know? And we want to learn from your wealth of knowledge.
Rima: Right. I think, uh, at my age, I feel very fortunate and yet maybe sad to have gone through so much in my life. I've seen it all, as you said, I've seen it all.
I've seen the good things. I've seen the bad things. [00:04:00] I've seen the cruelties, but, uh, I must say that, my experience in life and my witnessing in life is about so much beauty and dedication I've seen in my people, my family, my, uh, my colleagues. There is so much compassion, so much, uh, sacrifice that, it is beautiful. And this sometimes makes me wonder how come human beings can be so great, so, so spiritual, so giving and so on. And at the same time they can go to the depths of cruelty and brutality that we we're witnessing now. But I tell you something, from my experience, I still feel that because of this dedication of the human beings and which we are witnessing now [00:05:00] everywhere. Everywhere.
Tala: Mm-hmm.
Rima: I feel eventually beauty, humanity will prevail. That's why it's a message I'd like to give to all the young generations. Don't despair because you are giving us hope. Your dedication to truth, to beauty, to humanity is going to prevail.
I, I assure you. I assure you, one day it will prevail and we will redeem the earth from the catastrophes that is, that, that are awaiting if, if we don't do anything about it.
Tala: Mm-hmm. And it's very, it's very reassuring to hear that from you, you know, because you've seen it all and you still have this hope and you still believe that humans can, uh, can be better than what we, for example, my generation has witnessed. But if we want to go back to the beginnings, um, do you remember when you started, uh, finding interest in music? Like, was it a gradual interest? Was it a one, one moment thing? [00:06:00]
Rima: Well, I started, uh, learning piano when I was seven years old. In Birzeit in school with, uh, Salvador Arnita. He was one of the foremost musicians in Palestine, and I was very fortunate to have him as a teacher because he, he introduced me and to us, he was an, an icon, a role model.
We were so fascinated by his playing and his musicality and so on. And this was how I was introduced, basically, to music. That's when I started and I started playing the piano and I always, uh, did well all through and I started composing more when I was at the age of 11. I remember.
Tala: Wow.
Rima: It's very interesting that somehow music was always linked to me with, with Palestine. I don't know why. We were, when we were at school, we always learned these national songs and, and these songs really, uh, related to our hopes that we were hoping [00:07:00] that, through Arab Unity, through our renaissance, we are going to, get somewhere. And, uh, the first, compositions were music I said to the words of famous poets, uh, or renowned poets.
Tala: So it started early on. But you did mention Birzeit a lot. So if we want to also go back to, um, how, how your time was there, especially that, you know, for those of you who is, who are listening and don't know, Birzeit University originally started off as a school and the school was, uh, it belonged to, uh, your family, Rima.
So, tell us more about you studying there and how the whole, uh, you know, how the whole atmosphere was and, uh, the story behind the school.
Rima: Yes, yes, it is. Really, this is the, where the story of witnessing dedication started. Really, it is the story of, my aunt actually was approached by her teacher who was Lebanese [00:08:00] and who had gone to, um, the United States to study.
And she sent her a letter. She told her, 'Nabiha, why don't you come with me to Lebanon and let's start a school there?' And my aunt told her, 'why start a school there? Let's start it in here in Palestine, in Birzeit,' because we had the, the family home. My grandfather was a clergyman and he had eight daughters and one son.
Big, big family. So he had this big house. And he was as a, as a, uh, priest, he was living in various places, so the most of the time the house was empty. I mean, they didn't live there all the time. So she told her, let's start the school here. And sure enough, they started the school there. And, uh, 68 years later, Ratish Air went to Bethlehem and started another school.
And the school remained, you know, with the, with the family. And my father was helping her, my aunts, all the family was involved.
Tala: In 1948, you were studying in [00:09:00] Beirut and that's when the Nakba happened. So, um, I don't know. How do you remember that, period of time? Because it must have been difficult hearing, uh, the news, especially that there wasn't a lot of technology back then or social media while you were away.
Rima: Yeah, yeah. Well, the Nakba took place, I, I left Jerusalem in 1947 in the, in summer to go to college. And, uh, in November, uh, the, the partition scheme was, uh, announced and, uh, it was, everybody, all the university students, all Beirut was up and, you know, demonstrating against the partition scheme.
And of course all the news were, uh, all over. And I remember, I, I forgot to send you the, the letter I told you about.
Tala: Yeah.
Rima: I remember a friend of mine and I sat and wrote a letter, you know, telling everybody, now it's time for us, uh, not to be, to take care of luxuries. We [00:10:00] have to be, you know, think of what's happening in Palestine.
And, uh, on the other hand, the, the interesting thing, we were both of us 15 years of age. So the interesting thing was that at the end we say, all you Arabs, if you are not ready for the, the battle against the Zionists, uh, we hope you'll, you'll take your time. But if you are ready, you are. You know, we will be very happy to that, that you should.
So it, it, I thought it was, the wisdom of young people. I never realized that at this age, you can be so wise that, you know, anyway, and yeah. So it, and, and at the time in Beirut, everybody was welcoming the refugees and we were taking, helping the refugees who came to Lebanon and so on. So, we were stuck in, in Beirut for a whole, uh, for the whole year.
We couldn't come back home. Then we came back home in [00:11:00] summer, and in summer we discovered that Jerusalem was gone and everything was gone and, the, the story of, of our life, you know?
Tala: Mm-hmm. You also traveled to Paris to continue your education in music.
Rima: Yes, yes.
Tala: And, and this made me wonder, you know, whether society back then, um, was acceptable of young women to travel and study abroad.
Was it normalized or were your parents an exception? Were there any challenges?
Rima: I must say I, I was fortunate to live in a family who were very progressive and very much, uh, education oriented. I mean, to them education was very important, but it was accepted at the time, but it wasn't, it wasn't common, but it was accepted that the women went and, uh, got their education and so on.
And, uh, depends on the families, but we were the fortunate families who were able to do that. So I studied, yes, I studied for a year and a [00:12:00] half in France music, and I was hoping to continue, but I had to come back because my aunt was, became very, very sick. And she was on her deathbed and she was asking for me.
I was, you know, the eldest, uh, daughter of my, my father, the only child, the only son of the family. And she wanted, she said, bring Rima back. Bring Rima. So I came back. And somehow, when I came back, I decided, I, I helped in the school. I taught for a year and a half after she died. She died, you know, a few months after I came.
And, uh, I helped with the school, teaching music, activities, drama, and so on. And then, uh, somehow I decided that, uh, no, to, to be a musician, a full-time musician, it's demanding to become a musician full-time. So I decided I will take my BA and sure enough, I went on to take my BA, which was, uh, it was [00:13:00] great, great, uh, years of my life in AUB, you know?
Tala: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rima: And then I went back to Birzeit and started teaching again in Birzeit, music and, uh, I, I had studied Psychology and Arabic and so I was teaching. And, and I was, uh, very involved in activities, in drama. I was very interested in drama. So we had lots of, uh, Birzeit was, Birzeit was, uh, very keen on introducing all kinds of, uh, extracurricular activities.
So I taught two years in Birzeit, and then I got married and, and, uh, went to Canada. Yeah.
Tala: And, uh, during the Naksa in 1967, you joined, um, Inash Al Usra, which is a Palestinian organization, um, and you taught music to child refugees coming from Latrun. So how was it like teaching, uh, kids who had just fled war, um, and seeking refuge in, in Ramallah?,
Rima: Yeah, yeah. You know, music, I believe so much in the value of music as an [00:14:00] educational and psychological tool. It, it teaches so much to children and it, it's cathartic for children and it, it makes them express themselves in a nice way and in a harmonious way. So, uh, it was a pleasure teaching the, uh, children at the, uh, at the time.
The first thing I did when I joined Inash Al Usra, and we had this, uh, it was a KG for, uh, for children. So for the children of the Latrun area who were dispersed and so on. So the first thing was that, uh, I asked for was to get a piano and start teaching them music. So I started teaching them songs. And eventually I started writing songs for children, also, later on.[00:15:00]
Tala: And, you know, in these, uh, situations, people would tell you, um, food, water, and aid, uh, healthcare is so much more important than, you know, all these cultural activities, uh, because they are priorities. You know, if we go to, to Maslow's, uh, pyramid, we start off with the basic needs and then we kind of like, uh, elevate to other needs.
What do you think of this, you know, idea or opinion?
Rima: Yeah, of course, of course. I believe, uh, music and all arts are necessities in, in, uh, in education. Very important. When we started the Conservatory of, the Edward Said National Conservatory of Music in 1993, that's what people told us. I mean, you're starting a conservatory.
People have to eat food. It's not time for, I told them, music is as important as food. I think, uh, as I told you, the educational value, especially, I think one of the most important features of music is that it teaches [00:16:00] people to work together, to be harmonious and to know that beauty comes out of harmony, out of cooperation, out of, uh, discipline.
And when you play in an orchestra or we sing in a choir, you know that any small mistake you make affects the whole, the whole performance. So this way, you know that you have to be so much in, in control and so much in harmony with others. That's why I think music is very important.
Yeah. And I'm very happy to say that, uh, we were not mistaken because now music is flourishing in Palestine. And, it's wonderful to see how many activities, how many orchestras, how many, uh, conservatories have opened and it's, it's really wonderful. Great.
Tala: Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of the, you know, institutions you were involved in included family members, whether, uh, you know, uh, Tania, who is, uh, who is your sister-in-law, she sings with you [00:17:00] or, uh, other also members from the Baramki family.
And it's very, very obvious that you're a family oriented person. Which is something beautiful.
Rima: Yes.
Tala: But, also sometimes, you know, working with family could bring some tensions, you know, because you'd be, I don't know. You'll be eating lunch with them and then you'll have to work together.
And if you have to criticize each other, it might kind of like create some tension. So did you, did you, like, go through any of these like, um, problems? Do you have interesting memories, uh, funny memories that you can remember?
Rima: Well, to start with, I must mention that, you know, speaking of Tania, Tania was a very important part of my life, my music compositions.
Every time I used to compose a song, the, the lyrics and the song, I would go to her and see what she thought of it and, you know, she'd sing it and we'd, I remember when I wrote a song after my cousin, Kamal Nasser was, uh, assassinated in [00:18:00] Beirut.
Tala: Hmm.
Rima: He had written a song called "Al Wasiyya Al Akhira," "The Last Testimony." And he's saying, oh, it's talking to his son, virtuous son, if you hear of my death, please, so on and so on.
And, uh, and when Tania and I were singing it, when she was singing it, and we were crying while we are playing it, so it, it's one of the memories I have of, of Tania in this song and all of my other songs, of course. Uh, yes. And as far as family members, this is interesting.
Tala: Mm-hmm.
Rima: Nabil, my son, is fond of telling his wife, come, come.
I want to show you the place where I used to be tortured. He'd, he'd tell her. He'd tell her, I, I would take him in the, you know, stroller to the society of Inash Al Usra. I'd tell him, I have a meeting of five minutes only I'll, I'll come back. And he, he exaggerates and says, you would [00:19:00] leave me out for an hour.
Tala: Oh, no.
Rima: I always deny, I always deny that.
Tala: Yes, I believe you. I believe you. And then even if it's true, it's Fidda Falasteen it's okay.
Rima: It was bad. Yeah, yeah. And anyway, I, no, I must say that my husband, my husband Antone, he was a neurosurgeon, you know. And he was, uh, he was a very, very busy man and, I mean, uh, he started neurosurgery in Palestine. He was the only neurosurgeon in Palestine. So in spite of that, I must admit that he encouraged me.
He never stood in my way of, uh, joining the society. Although sometimes, you know, he had, he would sit and, and, uh, conspire with one of the other members. Ah, you [00:20:00] know, Rima is at a meeting and, you know, make fun. But on the other hand, no, he really encouraged me. He never, he never stood in my way of, of being involved.
Very involved. I was very involved, really.? Yeah.
Tala: Amazing. We we need more husbands like him.
Rima: Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Tala: There was a song, uh, that you've, uh, that you wrote, “Awladi Rahalou ‘Anni," "My Sons Left Me." I really, really liked it and I was listening to it. And I thought these were your kids, because you talk about Ghassan and then Wael and then Naeem, you are saying, uh, they all left me, they all left me. So when I asked you are, are they your kids? You told me no, no,, they're not my kids. They're um, they are actual poets and cultural activists from Palestine. So tell us more about this, uh, this song. How were you inspired to write it?
Rima: This was funny. All my children actually were out. They were already in universities.
And I [00:21:00] was in the kitchen. I remember, it's funny, I remember I was kitchen suddenly I felt so homesick for them and I started thinking of this song and I started saying, you know, awladi rahou, awladi rahalou 'anni.
And then I said, I better use the names of, you know, famous martyrs. So I use the name of.
These are the five people I mentioned, you know? And then the last one I said the Ather. I didn't mention the name. Yeah, it can be anybody, you know? So there are so many of them. Yeah. So yeah, this is a favorite song of mine, you know?
Tala: And they all, they all passed away outside Palestine. Right?
Rima: All these were assassinated outside Palestine.
Tala: Assassinated outside Palestine.
Rima: Well, well, his writer was assassinated in, uh, his own writer was assassinated in, uh, [00:22:00] Rome. Of course, in Lebanon, Kamal Nasser in Lebanon. And I think in, in Cyprus, I think, I can't remember where, in France.
Tala: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rima: Israelis are the most celebrated people for assassinating people outside. And this is all legal. Okay. It's all legal. In, in the world opinion. I mean,
Tala: It's ridiculous.
Rima: Anyway.
Tala: But you're also very generous in sharing your family, um, history and your family heritage with other people because you donated family photos, uh, to the Palestinian Museum.
Rima: Yes.
Tala: Tell us more about that project. How did you think of it? Which pictures did you choose?
Rima: I chose the very old, you know, the pictures of, not my [00:23:00] direct family, my present family, the pictures of my aunts and my father, in the 20s and the 30s. I thought the older pictures are more interesting. Or in the 40s.
Nowadays, people take so many photos that you don't have to.
Tala: It lost value. I, I totally agree. It lost value.
Rima: Yeah. Yeah. So I have, yeah. There are iconic pictures of my grandfather and my grandmother and my Aunt Nabiha, that this is, uh, you know, uh, and you had famous photographers. I think his name was Trevor Kan, one of the older ones.
Tala: It's precious, giving all of that, uh, knowledge and information and,
Rima: Well, I'll tell you the truth. I love people. I love my people, and I love, uh, human beings. I mean, I feel this, the compassion that one feels for humanity is, it makes life [00:24:00] meaningful. I mean, you can't, you can't isolate yourself from, from society.
Now, I'm isolated because I'm unable to move a lot and so on. But, uh, thank God for the Zoom, for the WhatsApp, for my friends who come and visit and so on. But, I somehow, I am, uh, I, I love people on the whole.
Tala: Me too. I mean, I studied Anthropology because I'm so amazed by human beings.
And as you said, like the, the same human who creates, this beauty creates also these bombs. And this, like, this discrepancy to me is very, um, very annoying. But at the same time, it kind of like, pushes me to want to know more about like this, uh, this creature.
Rima: This is, this is, yes. Very, very interesting.
Yeah. This is very interesting. You wonder sometimes, uh, whether people are sick or whether we all have it in us to be [00:25:00] that, like that we all have it in us to be good and do we have demons in us and we have angels and demons, I don't know. But no doubt, no doubt. Something else, you know, I must say in my long years, you struggle to fight weaknesses in you all the time. I mean. As a young person, there are things maybe you don't pay attention to. As you grow older, you grow wiser, you grow more tolerant, you grow more accepting of others. So there are things that you, so a human being is always fighting, uh, certain battles within himself.
It's not something easy actually to be able to sacrifice so much. When you think the people who are sacrificing so much, they must, you know, go through hell to be able to, to get to this level, of giving their lives for the sake of country. So, yeah. But as I say, I think the solidarity one [00:26:00] is feeling now, especially at the time when there is the peak of genocide, the peak of cruelty we are witnessing. This is something unprecedented. Nobody can fathom what's happening really. But this is going to be redeemed by the great solidarity we are feeling all through in all the peoples of the world. And I, I hope people will eventually overcome and will prevail and not those in power who are, you know, buying people off with their money or with their power or something like that.
Tala: And along, uh, along these lines, you know, it's often, often said that music, uh, bridges people from different cultures and it's, it's a form of unity. And it, uh, trespasses borders, uh, a lot of actually initiatives have tried to do peace building through music. What do you think of this attempt?
Rima: Well, I believe music definitely brings people together and bring cultures together. And, uh, no doubt, [00:27:00] but peace building depends, now. Depends. For example, if you're under occupation, it is a different thing. You cannot peace build through music. You cannot.
Tala: Mm-hmm.
Rima: For example, you can't have an orchestra that has, uh, Israelis who are at the checkpoints, uh, killing children and, and beating and imprisoning people, and you come and play with the music in an orchestra.
This is something that is, there are, I mean, there are limits to how much music can do, but music definitely brings people together and, uh, brings cultures together. I remember something very interesting, by the way, I remember Daniel Barenboim was a friend of ours. He, he was a friend of Edward Said and he, at the time, he, he was in solidarity with the Palestinians and so on, and it was very nice.
And, uh, we got to know him. And this started the West–Eastern Divan [00:28:00] Orchestra. It was at the beginning of the peace process. So they had Palestinians and Arabs, more Arabs than Palestinians. Anyway, of course we had, uh, reservations about that. We didn't approve of that. But the interesting thing is, when I went to London, he was performing.
And I went to see him. I went to see the performance in the, uh, Proms. It was a very nice performance, and the people came. The BBC people came to interview me and interview him. They were interviewing me. And they saw me and they said something, oh, Mrs. Tarazi, you're from Palestine. What do you think of the festival?
I told them, I believe what Maestro, actually it was Maestro Barenboim who said this all the time. I believe that in the French, the revolution, mantra, equality, liberty, and then fraternity in that order. That I believe in that. Once we have equality, once we have [00:29:00] liberty, then we can have fraternity. You can't have fraternity without having all the others.
As long as I am, I'm not equal with them, as long as I'm discriminated against, I can't have equality with them. I can't have fraternity.
Tala: True.
Rima: I can't have fraternity. So this is an interesting. Yeah.
Tala: Mm-hmm. The, the structural violence first needs to be, you know, resolved and then we can talk about all of these
Rima: Right.
Tala: cultural, cultural, um, you know
Rima: Yeah.
Tala: Bridging activities.
Rima: But music, yeah. But music in itself, you know, you can get introduced to all kinds of music of the various cultures and it's, it brings people together. It's different. But when it comes to normalization with the, with people who are, uh, discriminating against and oppressing you, it is different.
Tala: Mm-hmm. And of course, I mean, knowing you and listening to your music, it's not surprising at all to know that you were, um, a very important founding member of the [00:30:00] Edward Said Conservatory. And you talked about it, uh, briefly, but tell us more about, uh, how you started and, you know, you had the limited resources from what I understood.
So what kept you going?
Rima: Yeah, yeah.
Well, actually it was started. By the, um, welfare Association asked me to, you know, to get a group of people and, and make a study about the situation of music in Palestine. So I got the. Five musicians whom I, I I knew, you know, at the time it was s Nadia Am Na and Uri and myself, we sat and discussed and we thought, okay, we'll get somebody to make a study of the music situation Palestine.
So we, uh, commissioned a young man to do that. And sure enough, he went around. Was he, it was a paid job for him. After a month or two, three months, he came with a few [00:31:00] studies. You know, we, we were sitting at home. I told him. What do you mean? I mean, we're spending money on study. We know there is not no music in schools.
Tala: Mm.
Rima: The only way to get to make music flourish and to advance the promote music is to start a music, a serious music school. So we all agreed on that and immediately we went to British University. What about you? Uh, uh, you know, working under your auspices, because if you wanted to, uh, start a new, uh, project, you had to take permission from the Israelis and so on.
Yeah. We didn't want to go through that. So we became part of, uh, sort of an offshoot of British University Board of Trustees. So we started, we didn't have any money. Of course, they gave, I said, we, we can't give you any money. We'll give you the premises. They gave us the premise. A small premise and the teachers who were teach RI and NA [00:32:00] basically and am got their students in the conservatory and.
The students paid, you know, part of the thing to the, to them and part of the concentration. That's how we started. And then immediately we started fundraising for, for, for the, and immediately we got very good responses from friends and, and uh, people over. So it's an
Tala: amazing initiative. Very, very important initiative.
It was really
Rima: wonderful when I think of it. I admire some of the teachers who had to, had to go through so much to come or to go and give courses because we had curfews all along. Mm-hmm. And we had so many problems. I remember one of the teachers had to go, uh. He wanted to go Jerusalem, you had to cross borders and by, by most illegal means to be able to go to Jerusalem and risk the problem of, of being arrested.
I mean, everybody was dedicated. So it was a beautiful, you know,
Tala: and, uh, it focuses on classical music. [00:33:00]
Rima: No, no, both. Okay. Classical and Arabic. Uh, we started by immediately, the first thing was to teach both Arabic and music and, uh, classical music. Okay. So we got a teacher for Arabic music who was very good.
And then we started, the first premise was in Ramah. Then we started Premise in Jerusalem, and then we started the premise in, uh, Bethlehem, and then in
Tala: Les Amazing. And
Rima: later on. Later on in Gaza, we took over the, uh, it was for the, uh, uh, QAN Foundation. They gave it to us anyway, but mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So we had five premises and then we had outreach programs and so on.
It was, uh. Flourishing quite a bit,
Tala: but in general, like classical and Arabic, both of them, um, are, and I've seen the productions of the Conservatoire, they're amazing. Um, but they're uh, they're serious. They're very serious. They're, um, obviously nationalistic. And now, you know, music has become more like entertaining [00:34:00] and, um, there's a lot of different genres, even the Palestinian music.
How do you feel about that, like this shift or the evolution of music? Um. I
Rima: feel, I feel any music, anything well done is beautiful. It's okay. I, I'm not, I'm not, uh, phonetic about this. I, I don't, there, there are certain kinds of music I don't like, but, uh, it doesn't matter. I mean, some people like them, some.
I'm not a jazz fan, for example. So what jazz can be beautiful. I'm not an expert in Arabic music, but it can be beautiful. So, so I think any kind of music is great. You know, anything that is well done and if it's well performed, it'll be, it is beautiful and people have to express themselves the way they like, you know, music is a way of expression.
So give them the, the freedom to express themselves the way they like. Mm. Mm-hmm. So, yeah.
Tala: And, um, going back to you being very generous, I was very happy to learn [00:35:00] about your book, um, because you compiled all your songs and all the, uh, music sheets in one place for anyone who, who would like to play your songs.
Uh, so that made me feel like you have a very, very close connection to your audience. It's not just. Them listening to you? No. You want them to play along. You want them to sing along and even create their own music through, for example, the Conservis. Uh, so tell us more about that book and how the idea, how you got that idea and what it took for you to compile all your work in, uh, in the book.
Rima: Well, yeah, that, that took some time. You know, it, it was at the time when I was starting to, I was very involved in all these, uh, social activities and, uh, I started slowing down, you know, when, when I was getting closer to my late eighties. So I, I thought, you know, it was time to compile my music and try some of the, my music was written already.
Uh, the old music that was, uh, as I [00:36:00] told you, the music that I did when I was before mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, it was performed and so on. Uh, the Music by Kamal, I made, uh, wrote lots of music for Kamal Nasser and my cousin, and for, uh, uh, hin Han
ish and Abi and, uh, Amish, one of the first. So this was all written. But then my other music, I, uh. You know, I, I compiled it and I was helped by, uh, one of the teachers of the conservatory, Bettina, she's German, married to and Arab, the teacher, and she's wonderful. She really helped me. She was the one, you know, she used the computer and she, uh, yeah, she was the one really to edit the whole thing for me because, uh, it's a, it's a big job.
So it took us 2, 2, 2, 3 years to write. And my children really were, my children were the ones to [00:37:00] really encourage me a lot. They encourage me, they urged me to do that. I thought, well, I might as well, you know?
Tala: Yeah. What's, uh, what's your favorite, uh, song that you've written?
Rima: It's difficult to tell. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. So, you know. I have many favorites, but my, one of my favorite songs that, that makes me very, very sad is a, a song I wrote in memory of two young men who were killed at the same time. The ham boys, they were living in Jerusalem, and uh, when we went to visit her with, to her, what happened?
She said, I was sitting and my children said, we are going. I told them, where are we going? They said, RA, they just left home. And, uh, they were throwing stones at the army, Jeeps that were crossing that street. Mm-hmm. And both of them were shot at the same time. They were killed at the same time. One [00:38:00] was 19 and one was 21.
I mean, I was so touched by this story that, you know, this is one of my, it makes me very sad when I sing this song, when I, you know, anyway. What does it cause it, of course.
Tala: Mm.
Rima: Forgive a mother.
Tala: [00:39:00] And that's a very, that's a recurrent theme in your, uh, songs that you, you want whoever is listening to you to know that Palestinians want to live. Okay. We, we fight, we throw stones, we do all of that, but it is because we want to live, not because we want to die. And I found that very, very inspiring. Right,
Rima: right, right, right.
This is, this is very true. I always, I always end the song with the, with the note of hope because. All these, you know, uh, all the pains and suffering will end up by a hopeful note. No doubt. Yes, you're right. Mm-hmm. Life is very important to us. We are not a, we are not, uh, we're not a, so, a, a, a culture of death?
Not a bit. Not a bit. Mm. Not at all. But we feel that life with dignity is very important. Mm-hmm. Is life with dignity and liberty.
Tala: Hmm. Um, uh, Rema, you've held, uh, very important leadership roles in several women's [00:40:00] associations like the YWCA where you served as president and the Palestinian general Union of women.
Um, why was it important for you to focus on promoting, uh, women's roles in Palestinian society?
Rima: Yeah, of course, because women have been, you know, for a while. This was the major struggle for women, for equality and, and, and promoting women. But I believe in, in, uh, you know, all, all societies, I'm not only, I'm not partial only to women's societies, but women's societies have been, uh, the more active in social work than any other society.
Mm-hmm. Mostly where women, women. Women who were, uh, either, uh, not working women because at the time they were not working women at the time, uh, not many people were working. Nowadays it is very difficult to find women societies with people dedicated to, to give their time to voluntary work because most women are working now.
[00:41:00] So it is more professional now, but at the time. Uh, anybody who felt that we have time, we have to go and offer. As a matter of fact, everybody says we want equality for women. I, I believe that women. I have much more to give and much more experience, and they're much more qualified to lead. Mm-hmm. Because of ma many things, because women, the experience of women as a, as a mother, and as a, as a.
As a person who has been suffering for so oppressed for so long, she knows the meaning of justice. A mother knows the meaning of justice. She knows in her family, she knows if she is partial to one son. Uh, there is fights, uh, there is a fight to go on. She knows that she has to be as impartial as possible.
So I think this point in a woman's life is very important. And also because she has been oppressed, she knows. The meaning of [00:42:00] being, uh, uh, having equality. That's why I feel if women are to hold the res of power in this world, our world would be much better. Unless they try to emulate men like Margaret Cher and God May, and these horrible women.
Tala: I totally agree. Anna Wla, I would, uh, vote for you to be the next president. I think. I think someone like you would have, uh, you know, done a great job and you've been very close to, uh, Sam Samil who, uh, who run against Yes Ya, Arafat. I mean, we really need those role models. Uh, us as young women, we really need to see those role models.
Because I totally agree. Like I think men have ruled for far too long and we've seen the results. I think it's time for women to, um, you know,
Rima: yeah. Uh,
Tala: show us what they've
Rima: got. Is it. Was a special woman in my life. I mean, she is not only a role model, she's a leader. She's a, she's an icon and she [00:43:00] remains, you know, in our memory forever.
She's a wonderful woman. She is. In spite of her, she. And in spite of her leadership and so on, I always remember her with a smile and a laugh because she had a great sense of humor in spite of everything she is. Anyway, she's, and all these, my, all my colleagues and all, all these societies were wonderful.
I remember them. Many of them have passed away and I remember them so much love and and regret. And
Tala: you mentioned in one of your interviews that women were always. I don't know if always, but like a, um, a lot of times the front lines in, uh, a lot of protests and a lot of like civil dis uh, disobedience.
Yes. Yes. Um, and I was wondering why was that, is it because the soldiers do not, do not treat you as they would have the men?
Rima: Yes. We felt, we felt that we would, we were protecting the men because men were being imprisoned right and left. And we felt as women we can, you know, we are more immune. More immune, but [00:44:00] lately it's nobody's immune with Israelis.
But it was at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. We were, we were, for a while, women's, the Women's Movement was the one that was protesting and holding sit-ins and all the kinds of things. Later on, the student mu movement became very strong. Mm. And then it became everybody and so on.
Tala: One of, uh, your other songs that I also uh, liked is IATA until when, um, it says Until when must our children be Killed?
Until when? Until when. Must.
And it's been almost 20 years since you've recorded that song. Um, and the killing, unfortunately is getting even fierce and we are still asking ourselves the same question. So I don't know. [00:45:00] How does it make you feel that we are. Still asking the same question. You know, again, going back to where we started, you've witnessed all this, like all this, um, evolution of history in Palestine and we're still asking ourselves the same question, but maybe the factors have changed.
Uh, I don't know how it makes you feel.
Rima: I feel very, very sad. And yet that's, that's what I was trying to tell you. In spite of the sorrow, the deep sorrow, I refuse, I feel ashamed to despair. I feel criminal to despair because of the people who are sacrificing themselves and I have the luxury to despair.
No, no.
I feel that eventually. Humanity will [00:46:00] prevail eventually when I see all the solidarity movement all around, you know, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. People from all walk, walks of life, all religions. And this is the, the, the nice thing. I'm so happy to hear. People of all religions, of all faiths, Jewish people are talking much more vehemently against the occupation, against Zionism than any other people.
So this is, this gives me hope, this gives me hope, and this makes me, uh, I will not give up. And I, I am very sad, but I will not give up. I, I refuse to give up. I refuse to give into my sorrow. No, I refuse to give into my sorrow.
Tala: Hmm. And you know, this, uh, what you're saying is actually very, very important because we know that, um, I know that, uh, also your husband is from Reza and you've seen, um, you know, what's happened to his family and, uh, they lost their house.
So it's also very, very hard for you, [00:47:00] I'm sure, because you've been to Reza and you've visited, uh, your course. Of course, of course. Your husband's family there.
Rima: Yeah. Yeah.
Tala: Uh, thank you so much, Sima. Do you have anything else you'd like to share, you'd like to tell us? Uh, younger generation.
Rima: I, I keep, I want to keep insisting that you should not lose hope.
Never lose hope, because I think the worst enemy to any people is despair and giving up. We should not give up. And, and I know, I know. Because as I told you, I've seen it all. I've seen people fall and rise again and fall and dries again. And humanity has a way of, of overcoming all this eventually. Mm-hmm.
Eventually. The only, the only danger now we have is the artificial intelligence, the ai. This is, this is, that's more dangerous than Israel.
Tala: Oh my God. Imagine Israel and AI at the same time. That's, that's the enlightment.
Rima: My God. Oh [00:48:00] my God, my God. So I thank you. Yeah. This is my message to everybody. Yeah.
Thank you so much. Lovely talking to you, Avi.
Tala: Thank you. Thank you. You rema. You gave me a lot of hope myself and I repeat that I would, uh, vote for you for president. Think about it.
Rima: And in the afterlife. In the afterlife.
Tala: Lala by the shot.
Thank you so much.
Rima: Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye.
Tala: Bye bye.
Thank you for listening to Tita, a podcast dedicated to bringing you the best of Palestinian arts and culture. For more information, follow us on Instagram and don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your [00:49:00] [00:50:00] podcasts.